Your Nebraska Judicial Branch

Episode 12: Josh Fouts - Successful Problem-Solving Court Participant

June 01, 2021 Nebraska Judicial Branch
Your Nebraska Judicial Branch
Episode 12: Josh Fouts - Successful Problem-Solving Court Participant
Show Notes Transcript

Join us for a discussion with Josh about his journey through Nebraska Problem-Solving Courts.

Speaker 1:

Welcome. And thanks for listening. This is your Nebraska judicial break,

Speaker 2:

Greetings and welcome back. I am Jeanne Cotter, your host. And today I am extremely excited to welcome Josh Fouts to the show in honor of national problem-solving court month. Josh, thank you so much for joining us.

Speaker 3:

Uh, Jean, thank you. I'm really excited to be here too.

Speaker 2:

We are wrapping up national problem solving court month. You had the benefit of being in a problem solving court. Josh, can you just tell us a little bit about your path in life and what led you up to your involvement in problem solving court? I'm sure.

Speaker 3:

Uh, long story short, uh, I came into a drug court was the problem-solving court. I was on, uh, I started out, I came into a drug court with 3d wise and ultimately a manufacturing charge is what led me to, uh, be accepted on to drug court. Uh, so I didn't really think I had any kind of problems. And uh, so we had a really rough start to drug court there, uh, just because I wasn't really, uh, a happy member of being, uh, accepted on to drug court.

Speaker 2:

So talk about three DUIs and a manufacturing charge. Is that what brought you into court all at that same time or that was kind of your history? You got a DUI, you did some jail time. He did a DUI. You spent some time on probation, et cetera. Could you just break that down a little bit more for

Speaker 3:

Us? Sounds exactly like what it was 2002 was my first DUI. I think I got a deferred judgment on that. As long as I didn't get in trouble for six months, uh, I was, uh, okay to get my license back and just kind of go on with my life. Uh, my second DUI was a, an aggravated, uh, those were both in Iowa. I had a unsupervised probation, so they would just kind of check in on me, call me, but I didn't have to go in and see anybody or anything like that. As long as I stayed out of trouble, again, I wouldn't have any kind of re repercussions. Uh, then my third DUI, uh, was in my first in Nebraska and that was in 2007. Uh, what happened with that one as I got an attorney who argued, uh, again at the time in 2007, the laws weren't quite as strict. And so he argued that my first was in Nebraska. So it should be counted as my first DUI. Uh, so that I just got put on a very simple probation. I met a probation officer once a month. Um, she just yelled at me a lot because I smelled like weed and I wasn't really doing much of what I was told. Uh, and then eventually my time was just up. And at that point in time, it just had felt like I had no repercussions or serious consequences for any of my decisions up to that point. Uh, I lost my driver's license several times. I did very little jail time for somebody with three DUIs. I think I spent a total of maybe 20 days in jail for those three DUIs. Uh, so it just felt like I could do whatever I wanted without any kind of consequences. Then you roll into a 2011. I avoided any jail time between 2007 and 2011. I ended up growing some weed in my closet. I'm not sure how anybody ever knew about it. Uh, but, uh, I came home one day from work and I had the, uh, it looked like the SWAT team. They had all the gear on and they were ready to rock and roll through my house. And, uh, uh, that got me a manufacturing charge and start the county here.

Speaker 2:

So Josh, you talked about a couple of things there. One thing you talked about was you kind of felt like you were enabled, it didn't feel a lot of repercussions or accountability for things up to a certain point earlier, you talked about, you had a bit of a rough start in drug court. Talk about your rough start. What made it a rough start?

Speaker 3:

Uh, well, there's a lot of accountability, uh, in drug court. And what I noticed really quick is that kind of attitude of not really caring about what the consequences of my decisions were that wasn't going to fly, uh, with my probation officer, with the judge that just wasn't how drug court worked. Um, you know, I came in the first day and we had a little discussion with a couple of probation officers and it's me and three other, three other guys who had, uh, entered a drug court at the same day. And I remember arguing the first day right out of the gate about fantasy football, because they weren't gonna let me play fantasy football. And for some reason that was the most, the worst thing they could have possibly told me was that no fantasy football day one. And so, uh, I got off to a rough start with that because fantasy football is a form of gambling. And I had signed the entrance papers into a drug court and they specifically said was one of the restrictions was no gambling. And so right away, I was just prepared to break the rules, lie about what I was planning on doing day one, right out of the first meeting. So then that's what kind of led to a rough start. There was a lot of things like that. I came on to drug court with a very low paying job, and I was very satisfied with this low paying job. It definitely wasn't living up to what would be expected of somebody who was 32 years old working at minimum wage job, uh, because they didn't drug tests there. So you can just kind of imagine that came in with this worldview that, well, I can make whatever decision I want. Uh, it's fine. I don't have a driver's license. I find that my job is kind of a joke, uh, and that just wasn't going to hit the requirements for drug court. What changed? Well, uh, I was faced with the, uh, the idea that I was either going to jail or I was going to make some serious changes in my life. I had a public defender who suggested drug court as an option for me when I had that manufacturing charge. And he told me, well, drug courts a serious, a serious probation. I had been on probation before where, uh, you know, probation officer jail that may, maybe I got a little extra community service, but I was never going to have the possibility of going to jail for not taking a drug test or for, uh, showing up late to a meeting and with drug court. When I got there, they, you know, if you showed up late to your meeting with your probation officer, you weren't going to meet with your probation officer and they were going to be consequences from the judge, uh, the next week when you went to Webb before him. And that was something I had never really had before kind of level of, uh, if you misbehave or if you do not follow the guidelines that are set out in front of me, the things I agreed to, uh, when I signed up for a drug court, uh, there were going to be consequences and a lot of it was jail and I don't know about anybody else, but I don't like to be locked up. I want to have a cheeseburger if I feel like having a cheeseburger today. And if I want to go see a movie, I want to go see a movie. And so the freedom was enough of a, just something I wanted so badly that I started to see that if I followed the guidelines that I had agreed to, I was going to have the freedom to do those kinds of things. The alternative was I went to jail if I kept going to jail and, and not doing what I was asked to on drug court, ultimately I would have been, uh, kicked off a drug court and I would have served, uh, some kind of prison sentence. What

Speaker 2:

Surprised you the most about drug court, especially after you acclimated to it and got over that initial kind of tug of war with yourself and with the problem-solving court staff and whatever, what, uh, what, what surprised you,

Speaker 3:

Just how good things were, uh, in a sober life? I had never really, uh, through all those problems on the DUIs and all the G you know, all the things I'd done, I had never really had a much sober time. I'd never really put together a sober life. And, uh, as we started to, you know, kind of get those, uh, moments of, you know, I've been sober 30 days, uh, I've been sober 60 days and now, uh, you know, I have a sponsor now and I have a 90 day chip now, as I started to put those things together, there were these rewards I didn't think I would ever want. And, uh, it was things like there was more food in my refrigerator. Uh, you know, it was kind of just the condiment guy before, you know, it had the mayonnaise and the pickles and the ketchup. And that was about all that was in my fridge. And I ended up, I was eating three meals a day, which was kind of a new, because I was an alcoholic and a drug addict. And I didn't really know, uh, much more than that. Uh, as I started to build a friendships that weren't built on, uh, who could get me, what, and who could I help? And what can I get out of this relationship? As I built friendships that were, uh, based on friendship, those were meaningful and things I hadn't really experienced before. Um, I, I it's, it seems silly. And if I talked to a normal person, they might not understand how great those, those kinds of rewards are. Uh, but as I started to get things like my driver's license back, I was crying when I left the DMV, it was such an important moment for me, uh, because it was those, those types of things I didn't achieve before. I didn't realize they were possible for me, or just didn't want, you know, my life was basically cool DVD collections and, uh, PlayStation trophies that live in my PlayStation. They're not real. Uh, and so as I started to gain things that I guess most normal people enjoy in, like, I, you know, I started to like those things too. And so it was a real light bulb going off that this sober life is something I wanted to have and want it to continue with. Uh, and so I started to leave things behind, um, the old lifestyle, the old friends, they'll places, and kind of forge this new path through a lot of things. I didn't know I wanted. And so those were the kinds of things that kept me going and made it really, really exciting to, to be where I was at. You got

Speaker 2:

To have that hamburger whenever you want it, instead of just a condom at sandwich, something, use those cans condiments on, right? Yeah.

Speaker 3:

So much better when you start enjoying life. And the little SIM simple things like being able to go out and get a cheeseburger, a chocolate milkshake, boy, we spend a lot of time getting ice cream. No,

Speaker 2:

Just something that stood out to me. There was, you talked about your experience at the DMV when you got your license back. Another big thing about problem solving courts is you don't go through anything alone, right? The high, the high times, the low time. So when you're celebrating, I got my driver's license back, or I got my 90 day chip. You're not doing that by yourself. You have an entire support system that's surrounding you.

Speaker 3:

That's that is the truth. Uh, we were encouraged to spend a lot of time with peers. And I just remember there were guys, uh, through my journey on drug court that were, had been there longer. There's a guy who had been on drug court, maybe a year and a half. When I got to drug court, he just kind of took me under his wing. And I spent a lot of time learning how drug court worked. Uh, you know, it was just like, if you go to a meeting, get your card signed. It was this little information he kept giving to me. Uh, and those guys, I came in with day one on drug court. We were friends all the way through drug court, uh, still connected with some of those guys. I still talk to some of those guys on a regular basis. So keeping in touch with a lot of those people, uh, was really important. And I know I left my drug court. I graduated in 2014. I've stayed very active in the drug court here in Sarpy county. I've come back to alumni meetings and I've come to the men's group that they have once a week. And I've tried to stay active here because I just remember, it's such a good reminder for me that here are all these knuckleheads that are on drug court and they're just like me. Uh, they're just having that, the problems getting the Tufts starts and they're arguing probation officers day one, or showing up late to meetings. And I go, these are the things I struggled with too. And you don't have to, here's how we got through some of those things. And so you're right. Keeping that peer group and, you know, every time a driver's license was gotten back, uh, the judge has mentioned it in court and there would be clapping and that people would applaud. Uh, so we are kind of all in that together in that kind of regard. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

How would we does that? Cause I think about 2007, Josh, could you imagine sitting in a room where there was a prosecutor and a police officer and a judge and probation officers, and you were all talking about things in collaboration with each other, instead of you having to like look over your shoulder and think what's, what's this all about being part of that team, including all of those people you just talked

Speaker 3:

About. Yeah. Uh, it was definitely a lot different feeling than when I, when I came in, uh, that was the one thing. There was a lot of, uh, trust issues. I wasn't a very trustworthy person. When I got put on drug court, I had just spent a lot of time lying and doing whatever I could to get my way. And, uh, there was a lot of trust building, not just with the peers, but with my probation officer. I remember, uh, early on, this is one of those things I struggled with early on was I was very afraid to be put into a three-quarter way house, uh, you know, sober living house. And I was just, uh, I didn't want any part of that. And I remember I had a conversation with my probation officer and she mentioned that, um, well, you will scream for a house and then maybe we'll have a conversation afterwards and see how, how things go. And I remember I went to the screening and I was reluctant. I was fearful that I just didn't want to live with all these strangers. I'd lived on my own for 15 years and just didn't want to have anybody in my space or be in anybody else's space. And I remember the gentleman I screened with, he said, Hey, you know, if they sent you to me, that means you're going to live here. And I just remember leaving that meeting going, oh, she said, we were going to have a conversation about this. And, and I like that, that's what she told me. And, um, the next week in court, uh, that they had had that conversation and they decided to not move me into that three quarter way house. And so, uh, for me, that, that kind of trust that was built in that small moment of, you know, she said she was going to do this. And she, she followed through, uh, where some of the things that, you know, just kind of led me to believe that maybe I should listen to some of the things and some of the ideas that they have here,

Speaker 2:

Josh, as you're going through things. I know that if you look at the totality of a program, especially if somebody's coming in the front door, you think about, oh my gosh, I have to drug test so many times a week and people are coming to my house and I have to do this class and men's group and support group and MRT, and I have to have a job and I have to do these things. It can seem a little bit overwhelming up front, talk a little bit, if you would, about how somebody would overcome that. And of all the components that I just talked about. Is there any one or two things that stands out to you has having been the most beneficial to you as you went through your program?

Speaker 3:

Sure. I know that, uh, I didn't do, I didn't grow into the, uh, the drug court program very easily without other people. I came in without a driver's license. So, uh, it was beneficial for me to ask for help from my peers. And I know that, uh, as I grew through the drug court and got farther, farther along and leveled up that, uh, it became my responsibility to help somebody else get to those places and to drive other people around. Uh, so I think a lot of what, uh, that, that peer group was kind of what got me through a lot of that early stuff, because there is so much, uh, you know, it was, it was having the job and coming every week with a paycheck stub and it was going through a schedule and writing down my schedule each week for my probation officer. And it is overwhelming. There is a lot of stuff to do. Uh, but here were these other people that had been on the same court for a year and they were doing it just fine. And so you kind of look to them for some advice, and generally they're really helpful. Uh, you know, th this is how I do it. Let me give you a tip show up to every meeting you've got with at least 10 minutes, then you're not late for sure. And so it was those little drops of information that really kind of kept me going through a lot of the tough stuff, because you're right at the end, you know, you go through IOP and then you go through, uh, you know, so much, uh, so early on I'm thinking back to it. And there was just MRT was, wow. I forget about MRT sometimes. Uh, but yeah, there was just so much going on. And so you weren't doing anything alone, you were doing with a lot of other people, and that was kind of the best thing about it because they would help you and you would help them. And then you kind of felt obligated by the end to help out the next guy down the down the road,

Speaker 2:

An MRT is more recommendation therapy, which is a thinking program. Right. And it sounds to me like that's where the biggest challenge lies for people is thinking about things differently. I've thought about things this way for 17 years or 30 years, or however many years it's been. And now I have to think about things differently to put things in perspective to achieve my goals. Is that kinda what you got from like MRT and some of the rest of the program

Speaker 3:

MRT was, uh, it was a really great experience. I didn't like it at the time, um, because you were so focused with, uh, the group and, you know, our drug court had MRT towards the end of your stay on drug court. And so you just kind of wanted to rush through it as fast as possible. And so I, you know, I had the impression it was gonna be very easy and it was a lot of work. There was a lot of writing things down on and off following directions. Uh, but ultimately I had such a good time and I still have my MRT workbook and every now and then I will pull it out and I will look at some of the goals I had there. I've got things crossed out that I'd forgotten, I'd put in there, but you know, when you start writing down what you want out of life, instead of just what you feel, it gives you, it really kinda gives you the push you need for a lot of those things that you want. But yeah, MRT was a really great experience. I really, really enjoyed it.

Speaker 2:

You kind of get out of the program, what you put into it, if am, if I am Josh Fouts of 2007 and I'm standing here on the brink of making a decision between, do I want to keep getting the same old, same old, or do I want to make changes? What would you tell somebody as far as take a chance if you're being offered an opportunity to problem solving court, take it. And here's why,

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I think about that a lot. Uh, I think about Josh on day one and what he was feeling, and there was this a lot of fear of not knowing what was going to happen. Uh, you know, there was so much pressure because they wanted to know so much right away. Uh, you know, let's, you know, let's get your paycheck stubs, and what do you do on Tuesday nights? And there was a lot to go through. And I just remember that was a very scared person, uh, who probably just needed a hug to say it was going to be okay, give this a chance coming out. The other end, I look back on my experience in drug court and what a life-changing event it was, uh, you know, I don't get sober if I don't go through drug court, I don't spend, uh, you know, the first, a year of sobriety thinking, you know, ah, this is only gonna last two years and when I'm done, I can, I can move to someplace where you can smoke weed and I can drink whenever I want. Uh, you know, and then you live that life, that sober life for a while and things get so good. Uh, you start to enjoy the cheeseburgers and you can start to enjoy the freedom. And, uh, you understand what the consequences of bad decisions are. And I'm moving into the second year when I decided, Hey, I'm, I'm going to stay sober. This is worth having a drug court instantly changed into something. I was very happy to be a part of, you know, I, I realized the gift I was being given there, uh, about halfway through. And, uh, once I kind of realized that, uh, it was easy, drug court became such a pleasure to be, it was nice going to see my probation officer. Uh, it was okay going to MRT. I was going to see my friends on drug court rather than just my peers. Uh, so somewhere in that, in that time, it had changed because I'd made the decision. This was something I really wanted for the rest of my time here. And so, uh, I don't know those first, those first weeks were so difficult and there was so much to complain about because life was so unfair and coming out the other end and going, this was the best thing. The best decision I've ever made was to, uh, be a part of something that could change my life. So greatly not even realizing how much I did not enjoy life beforehand, uh, do something that I really cherished afterwards, my time on drug court. I wouldn't, I wouldn't trade it for anything.

Speaker 2:

Josh, in honor, of national problem solving court month, we continue to celebrate you. We continue to celebrate the current past and future problem-solving court participants. And we thank you for your time today.

Speaker 3:

Thank you very much. I really enjoyed being here.

Speaker 2:

This has been another episode of your Nebraska judicial branch. Please remember to subscribe and review us on your favorite podcast platform.

Speaker 1:

[inaudible].